Phil Callahan an interview with Joe Blankinship – Part I


in an intense introspective discussion with Joe Blankinship.


include weak electromagnetic fields, World War II, and agriculture



1. Paramagnetics.

2. World War II.

3. Agriculture.

4. Natural Cures

5. Entomology

6. Radio Technology

7. Infra Red Technology







Joe and Marilyn Blankinship visit with Philip and Winnie Callahan at their home in Albuquerque, New Mexico in 2004. A few initial minutes of introduction are not captured on video.

As if you just entered the room you’re instantly engaged with the conversation taking place. The content and dynamics of their time together is captured in this perfect example of both men’s
recollections of their lives and research.

The transcription from video tape to print is an attempt to preserve the charm of their candid conversational style and is presented intact as much as possible. Where there is editing of words
and phrases it is only done for the purpose of clarity or to make sense. The decision was made to not interfere with the fluidity of the “read” with indications as to where these modifications

Phil Callahan has published eighteen books; many of them touched upon and shared in this visit. The transcription from video to print was completed late July of 2010 at the request of Joe Blankinship whose aim is to carry Dr. Philip Callahan’s legacy generations forthcoming.


Enjoy the ride!






Tape begins


Joe: … and cell phone exposure will sterilize eggs and they won’t hatch. Bill Bailey, who worked for Motorola, said, “They don’t sell many cellphones to chickens and peacocks.” That was his answer
to that. But we’ve still got them. I found that if you take a little möbius and put it with a little magnetite in a disk and squeeze them it disrupts direct EMFs. Tesla came up with this purple
disk. I gave you one or two of them.. they had the cobalt and aluminum in them, the yin and the yang. When you combine the disk and a little möbius, it keeps the rays from penetrating the skull.
To make it, the disk must be placed on a bed of granite and exposed to a high voltage Tesla coil for about a day. We’re putting them on a polar concentrator.. six and a half million co-factor..

Phil: (Takes out a small statue from his pocket) He took the Virgin Mary similar to this one and filled it with magnetite and sealed it. He hasn’t had a problem again. I’ve got the Virgin Mary and
flled it with paramagnetic rock. (Holds up a small statue of the Virgin Mary from his pocket to show Marilyn). It works for the common cold and I’ve never even had a sniffe.

Joe: This doctor Marshall.. I handed you his name there, is very concerned. I gave him a copy of the time you did the interview in Nexus Magazine about the cancer that you had and other people and so forth. I also told him that you were able to successfully treat leprosy. I went into detail about it and he is very interested in that. He’s thinking that everyone that I have ever told about
taking magnetite by spoonful think that it’s an herb and it won’t actually dissolve.. it won’t actually go in, but it’s actually doing something.

Phil: As it goes into you, it puts energy into your body. It’s a quick cure, actually.

Phil Callahan – An Interview With Joe Blankinship l 3

Joe: A doctor in Tucson I was talking to, Dr. Best, bought an infrared box that people can get into and gave them the paramagnetics. They swallow it down and then get in the box. Do you remember the fellow in Pink Polk, Florida, Roy Davis with all these dogs? He had 200 dogs. Half of them had cancer and the other half were the control group. The half that he fed magnetite to and had sleep on magnetic beds all healed. Every one of the damn dogs. The others that were in the control group,every one of them died.

Phil: I played with chemicals that I had to synthesize for six years when I had a job at Louisiana State University and I got lung cancer. I cured it in less than a month. It was gone inside of a
month by taking a teaspoon of magnetite.

Joe: You told me about the pads you made that trace back to the Jewish tradition.

Phil: Yeah, the Shatnez. Nobody knew the name of it until I met this 91 year old Rabbi. He said that it is the Jewish name for sackcloth and ashes. Sackcloth and ashes were not for penance, they
were to heal leprosy. When they put sackcloth Hemp and ashes on a leper, it would heal them. It did not have anything to do with penance. In the Bible, they had to do penance and they were healed.

Joe: That was a very important factor that you told me. In fact, I made hundreds of pads like that and I gave them to two hospices. The doctors would come a long and throw them in the garbage can. The nurses would take them back out of the garbage can and give them to the patients. They said they used less narcotics.. no sales!

Phil: Of course.


Joe: Now I found you can beneft these by putting them in a plastic bag, seal them real tight and put them in the freezer. Then when they come back out, they slowly give off energy. There is a
change in the CGS when they get back to ambient temperature.

Phil: You actually have some movement.

Joe: So that goes right back to Wilhelm Reich. Wilhelm Reich came to Tucson and had the orgone. I think orgone and paramagnetics are the same thing.

Phil: Of course. That was his name for it. He had to call it something. He didn’t know a lot of physics and he had to call it something. So he called the energy, Orgone, but it is the same thing.

Joe: Now he wrote that book “Pathology Cancer” and he got in trouble. That’s when they put him in
prison and he died just before his release date.

Phil: They put him in jail. That was the American Medical Association doing. I never had much use for them and I still don’t. They’re as crummy as ever on something like this. It’s all greed.

Joe: Money. It’s all about money. I’ve got another thing I have been playing with that I want to tell you about. I read Dr. Paul Langévin where he put crystals between two plates and would tap
them to get the coherent wave. When you were talking about the fellow that worked on the radio, you mentioned Langévin at one time. I had a helluva time fnding out about him. Langévin made sonar and radar by tapping crystals under pressure. So I made a bunch of stainless steel plates. I put these little magnetite balls in between them and squeezed them. They benefted plants, they benefted animals.

Phil: Plants grow like crazy.

Phil Callahan – An Interview With Joe Blankinship l 5

Joe: It’s unbelievable. Now, I went a step further. I got a hold of a hyperberic chamber from Bruce Halstead and brought it over to Tucson. It saved my brother’s leg. My brother had diabetes. We put him in the chamber three or four times a week.

Phil: Paramagnetic oxygen.

Joe: Paramagnetic oxygen is what it was I found out with, Langévin, I didn’t have to put them in a steel plate. I mixed them with sodium silicate and put the stuff together in little balls. I
squeezed them up like the holy balls in India. While they were still wet, I squeezed them under tremendously high pressure with the oxygen inside the chamber. They came out of that chamber active and alive. They have paramagnetism. These do not.

Phil: They have oxygen which is paramagnetic.

Joe: They are paramagnetic, but these don’t measure on the CGS meter as much as the others.

Phil: They feel warm too.

Joe: They are always warm. There was an old con artist I met years ago in Florida who was selling oxygenated water. He called it “Fountain of Youth Water” from silicon dioxide and ferrous oxide
rich source. He made a lot of money, got into trouble with the federal government, moved to Hawaii and they found him over there. Then he moved to Vienna. He buys these balls from me. He’s got them on the Internet as “cosmic balls”. He sells these damn balls for $30.00 a piece and getting rich.I’m nearly giving them away. The balls do work. I put them in the skimmers of swimming pools which helps to restructure the water. There is a Japanese guy named Dr. Masaru Emoto as well as a few other people who have taken pictures of structured water after they chill it. When they chill it,you can see all these crystallizations and the beautiful forms. They are


even talking to the water and if they pray over it, the crystals are pretty. If they speak the
words, “Adolf Hitler” or “rock-and-roll”, the crystals go to hell. He also studied frozen water
crystalline structure.

Phil: It’s funny how the human language puts negative words to things that are crummy.

Joe: I spent a lot of time with, Dr. Robert Ricketts, who was an orthodontist.. a really bright
man, and even went to Hawaii with him. He wrote a dozen really good books which included hundreds
of articles. He worked on Loren Bacall’s face by adjusting her jaw to make it perfect. He did a job
on Sophia Loren too. Bacall goes on record condemning cosmetic surgery just to get an edge, but
anyway, he used the golden ratio. He even made a simple adjustable measuring instrument that looks
like a drafters compass, but with three legs instead of two, to measure facial proportions relative
to “beauty”. I’ve still got a handmade Fibonacci compass he gave to me. Ricketts was selling
vitamins out of a company he had called Morganics Research. So, we got into vitamin deals with him.
I bought a sonic grinder. I got it from a copier toner company that went broke who were grinding up
the black iron to make the toner. I was selling them the iron they used for the toner. Well, that’s
pretty well controlled by large companies. There are just a few people who they allow to make money
on it because they are getting $80.00 or $90.00 for a little tube. He was making it cheaper and
they kind of squeezed him out. When he went bankrupt, I bought the $40,000 sonic grinder for a
fraction of its value. So, Morganics Research was coming down and the old man was having me grind
up his vitamins and minerals because they retained the crystalline structure. When you beat or
grind them and then blend them all together the integrity of the individual crystal is lost. So,
now I’m taking quartz and grinding them this way. That’s what this Dr. Marshall from Round Tree
Research in Texas told me. I have people from all over the world coming by two or three days a
week. I don’t even have a telephone at my lab. I have people from Germany and China finding me. The
natural form of gold is unaltered and alive, organic if you like, until


arsenic, mercury, and radium come into contact and kills it. You know, arsenic can be neutralized
using magnetite. I’ve got no formal education nor credibility in all this. It’s the things that I
am telling them about what you know. They should sell a bunch of your books. Anyway, I think this
is your greatest work you have ever written.

Phil: I’m going to write another one pretty soon.

Joe: I’m real into it. Now, Christopher Bird, he died. I went to his funeral where about 200 people showed up. I didn’t know that he had a twin either and when his brother came in.. I tell you, that
was a jolt.

Phil: I saw a picture of his brother once and they look exactly the same.

Joe: He showed up at the funeral in Georgia. He’s doing a book, but Bird books are not well known.. people would be healthier if these books were read. The world ignores him.. even today. Anyway, he had it down to about the last chapter. His wife, Shana, I don’t know if she’s ever going to do anything with the book, but I would like to get his manuscript from her and and let you fnish the last chapter.

Phil: Sure, I would be glad to. He was working on that book back when I knew him, back when I
taught in Pittsburgh, he had it about half written then.

Joe: I read the whole book. I went all the way through it. I am down to the last chapter or so and it’s really a good book. I can’t think of anyone in the world that could do a better job of
fnishing it than you. I think it would outsell his “Secrets of Plants”, “Secret of Soil”, or his dowsing book. The water book with your paramagnetics could save the whole damned world.

Phil: Yeah, I could fnish it.


Joe: I’ll tell Shana about that. Now, the same thing happened with Dr. Benza in Canada. Benza was working on what he called Pima Water. It was phototonic implemented “agua”. He was taking iron oxide, putting it in a silicon dioxide pyrex tube and shooting it with a laser through the pyrex and then let the water run over it. He was doing a real good sanitation job using this process. He
fne tuned it enough that he could actually take salt out of water.

Phil: I don’t know why conventional scientists will not pick up on anything like that. It’s too way out for them, but it works. They are beginning to use laser for a few things like that.

Joe: I’m getting old, but I’m going to try to make it up to Alberta and see if I can get his wife to let me take his last notes and see if I can get somebody like you to revise his last notes.

Phil: She’s still alive?

Joe: She’s still alive. She was a lot younger than us. You know this old man, don’t you? I’m
slowing down and have to go faster to get our of reverse. It’s hell getting old. So much yet to

Phil: Yeah, I know the feeling too well.

Joe: Benza used the electron microscope and measured things. He was doing the same thing that Reich
and Rife were doing. And so was Galant Nasion in Canada. Dr. Benza’s work is so real like the
reality of paramagnetics.

Phil: Wilhelm Reich started all of his stuff, but he wasn’t a physicist, so he didn’t know much
about what he was doing. Funny, it always worked.

Joe: Well, if it works, why change it? These people went into optic electron microscopes and you
went into a pinhole camera. Every one of these people that I ever talked to, including Christopher Bird, all believed in dowsing.

Phil: Sure, you have to. They would be crazy if they didn’t.

Joe: They would not go talking to the outside public without that. Ben Arbogast, a retired realtor
from Tucson, he calls here every once in a while, he’s looking for treasure and that kind of stuff,
but I’m looking for things that heal. We took the iron oxide and mixed it with lignites and then
set it near plants. They registered 800-900 percent more vitamins and minerals.

Phil: That’s how it works. If you put paramagnetism in your body, it makes all your vitamins and
everything else work 10 times better. You’ll never get sick.

Joe: Well, this doctor who’s in trouble in New York is a medical doctor doing a different treatment
for cancer. He was taking aloe vera, magnetizing it and various other things, and then injecting
the aloe vera juice right into the cancer with success. He got into trouble for breaking the
Feinstein Act, cancer, cut and burn therapies. He’ll get jailed same way Jerry Vail did.

Phil: They never could get me on that because they’re afraid of me. I had way too much proof.

Joe: I think they think they’re going to outlive us both. You’ve come out a time or two. I used to
ask you a question and you would say, “Joe, your gonna get us both in Alcatraz.”

Phil: They’re afraid of me. That’s the problem. Proof.

Joe: Ben has run into some of these measuring devices that he’s playing around with. He’s talked to
some of these people that he has run into at


dowsing meetings. He’s coming up with a Bovis measurement. What do you think of Dr. Bovis?

Phil: Antoine Bovis goes back to the wine industry measuring sugar content of grapes. It helped
them make better wine and more of it. He did energy research on the great pyramids in the thirties.

Joe: It goes all the way back to Bosie in India.

Phil: He was a famous physicist.

Joe: He was frst and right on. He has been responsible for saving millions of people in India..
even has a world recognized university named after him. The man studied the stars. Bosie was
knighted by the Queen of England.

Phil: Yes, he got recognized by the Queen.

Joe: He was very good. They have some of his books at the University of Arizona Special
Collections. But they won’t let me copy them. They said the copier would fade them.

Phil: The copier passes ultraviolet light and they’re afraid to use old manuscripts on the copy

Joe: So I have hand copied a lot. He was using a wheatstone bridge. He came pretty close to your
machine a hundred years before.

Phil: His was a CGS instrument, but more primitive because they didn’t have the transistors back
then. They probably could have made a better one if they used mica and peanut vacuum tubes. They
had them back then. The frst one I made used peanut tubes. They were regular tubes but small. I
made one in World War II. I just got a call from the CIA last week. I’m going to get regulation for
my work. That surprised me, 60 years later.


Joe: Halstead. They put him in jail for his cancer therapies. But, once he got in, they made him
start working on the CIA and Naval Strategic Service for big weapons. They were taking these
poisons from poisonous and venomous plants and fsh and mixing them with DMSO. They asked him how to
kill honey bees. I have lots of his notes. One of the things he was working on during the last part
of his life was he was taking the frequencies of the poisons and recording them on disks and
broadcasting them beneath regular food. The wrong frequency based on the poison was enough to kill
a person.

Phil: Sure, frequencies is what kills. You could make a frequency to kill anybody.

Joe: All good things can be reversed. Reich called orgone two ways.. benefcial orgone that we are
familiar with and detrimental orgone that would pass bad vibes.

Phil: Sure..

Joe: Do you realize what this could do to the medical profession with aspirin bottles and other
things? If you put arsenic or cyanide in the frequencies, plus you would never even break the

Phil: No, you would put the toxic frequency in the aspirin and they would never fgure out how you
were killed.

Joe: Now, Halstead here, during the last part of his life, was using oil of camphor and camphor
spirits with DMSO. He was rubbing them right on the lymphatic glands. He was getting tremendous
results. The last part of his life, he was injecting them directly into the tumors and he was
stimulating the immune system right where the cancers were. Halstead mixed some finely ground
magnetite with hydrogen peroxide and injected it right into the area. Finally, he was using DMSO as
the vehicle to absorb it through the skin.


Phil: There are a lot of doctors who surreptitiously discover cures. Most doctors when they read my
book, they say that’s great. If they go ahead and do it, they won’t let the American Medical
Association know it, of course. It’s never widespread knowledge.

Joe: When the FDA ordered his DMSO Handbook burned, I went over there before they did and collected
all the hard and soft book copies plus everything else I could. I got several of his unpublished
books out of there. They would have been lost forever.

Phil: Halstead was an incredible man. It’s a shame the world won’t see that body of work.

Joe: What is so magical about camphor?

Phil: Camphor is a plant. It’s a scent actually. It’s like perfume healing. The scent has valuable
healing properties like Frankincense and Myrrh. Of course the perfumers know that. A lot of them
are doing research on different kinds of perfumes that help people treat diarrhea and other

Joe: Halstead had a whole fle on camphor. He said camphor is the main ingredient in tiger balm that
comes from China.

Phil: Yeah, tiger balm is mostly camphor.

Joe: It’s tremendous. It’s big business all over the world particularly in asian countries.

Phil: People in the old days.. women used to buy camphor and rub it on their knees for arthritis.
Camphor was used in all of the old healing. Then, along came chemical healing which is poison
based. It kind of did away with all of the natural healing. But it’s coming back now. The natural
healers are licensed in some states now.


Joe: There are so many people making money in alternative medicine that now a record number of
doctors have adopted the practice of recommending second opinions in their offce to get in the

Phil: They’re fnally coming along for the money. That’s what does it. There’s a lot of money in
alternative medicine. Allopathy is a form of legitimizing murder.

Joe: Andrew Weil is in Tucson. He was Harvard trained in medicine, but he saw the importance of
alternative medicine. So, he got into it. He is making lots of money selling a little newsletter.
Every month, he turns out a newsletter that costs fourteen or ffteen dollars a year. And, he has
three to four million people a year subscribing to it. I’m not sure you ever thought about that,
but you could put together one million little pamphlets of all the things you hove done.

Phil: Yeah, I never was interested in money too much, I don’t guess.
Money just comes to me when I need it.

Joe: The same with me. And when something works, I go do something else. I just can’t stay on one
thing. It drives Marilyn crazy, but that’s me. It’s sort of a “dis-ease” of mine. I lose interest
if it’s not making any money.. I wish I was a little more business minded.

Phil: I can’t either. Once I solve something, I want to go on to something else and try to solve
it. That’s the problem with life, just keeping ahead. I’m probably going to write a book before too
long and it’s going to be a hodgepodge of all these things that I have solved.

Joe: I think that would be great, just a bathroom book, just a page or two at a time. The last time
I saw Christopher Bird alive was in Sedona. He called me a and said, “I’m going to be in Arizona.”
I said, “When?” He said, “I’m going to go through Sedona. Joe, I don’t feel like going down to that
hot country where you are.” I said, “I’ll come up there.” So, I went up


there and spent three days with him at Poca Loca. We spent a lot of time together and we talked a
lot about you. Your ears were probably burning. He said that you are one of the human beings that
write things that a layman could read. Or, even a kid’s coloring book. They’ll read anything. They
don’t discriminate and because the technology of truth is so simple, it’s interesting to them which
carries on throughout a lifetime.

Phil: That’s the only way to do it really.

Joe: He said the profession wants to talk in riddles. You are just too frank and too many people
can understand what you’re saying. I mentioned that people don’t read complete books anymore and
what about putting the information in little pamphlets. He said he thought that was the coming

Phil: That’s what I’m doing now. I’m going back into all this stuff and doing pictures with it.
What I learned from the Montauk Project; what I learned form the Philadelphia Experiment; and what
I learned from the interplane wing strut; what I learned from the B-26 I few in World War II when I
was decorated and I learned from airplanes. The Wright brothers were incredible people.


Joe: They weren’t super educated either.


Phil: They were just bicycle mechanics. One of them saw a piece of paper fying through a barrel one
time and that was the beginning of the wind tunnel. He got a barrel and made a wind tunnel. That’s
how they built their glider.

Joe: There’s something I wanted to ask you about. William Lear believed there were UFOs and contact
in the country. So did Wilhelm Reich.

Phil: So do I.

Joe: You do? I never talked to you about this. I know two or three people who were high in the
military and checked the Roswell incident. I took Wilhelm Reich over to Roswell. He and I went over
and look at it. He talked to the rancher and all of the people who were close to this stuff. It was
real and they were eye witnesses.

Phil: It was real for sure. The rancher wouldn’t lie. He knew what he saw.

Joe: We talked to all these people. When Wilhelm Reich came back, he believed that this country got
a lot of data for engineering for switches, computer chips, optic fbers, etc. from ETs. He believed
they back engineered this stuff and credited the people they wanted to credit. They got a lot of
data out of that exchange. Dr. Einstein got the Nobel Prize for light optics.

Phil: I don’t doubt that the transistor came straight from Roswell. No doubt about it. What was the
guy’s name who invented penicillin? Fleming. He got his ideas from what they found at Roswell. It
wasn’t mold on bread because the old Jewish Rabbis used moldy dry bread and charcoal as remedies.
They were smart. Actually, there is a big round spot of radioactive decay there. There was a lot of
this “magic dirt” this one guy called it. It souped up the silver so that it could be used for all
kinds of means. I think the transistor came out of that. The transistor is made of silicate doped with
iron oxide or doped with radium arsenide, one or the other. You can build them I’m sure. I’m
writing up my memoirs now because I got the promise of getting the Medal of Honor for what I did in
World War II. All I did to survive was to take a little peanut tube and powered it with
paramagnetic rock.

Joe: I took paramagnetics and made my frst radio. I took nothing but copper wires and carbon chips.
I had a lot of trouble keeping it on a station. I put it together. I found if I put it on a bed of
magnetic iron oxide of sand, it worked even better.

Phil: That’s the old crystal set that came along when I was a boy. I made my frst crystal set. When
crystal sets came out, they were nothing but non-linear transistors. You had to search around for
the right point.

Joe: It went all the way from that to the vacuum tube and then it went back to that again.

Phil: It went a complete circle back to the crystal. It’s all crystal now. Everything is
transistorized now. Like that picture of the pyramid of Malcolm. I went to a pyramid named
Malcolm’s Nest. There was a whole limestone cliff which is diamagnetic. In the pyramid, you will
fnd some other rock that was brought in that was paramagnetic. There is always paramagnetics. If
they couldn’t fnd it locally, they would bring it in.

Joe: Halstead told me that in every bird, every homing pigeon, there is a small amount of magnetite
in the brain. He told me if you put a tiny magnet on the top of the brain of the bird, the bird
becomes lost. He had a degree in toxicology as well as oceanography in addition to medicine. He
believed these whales that come in, they are getting disoriented because the magnetism they are
getting has been deguaussed.

Phil: Yes, they become sick or something and it deguaussed the magnetism in their brain. They don’t know where they’re going, so they come ashore. There’s no
question about that.

Joe: There is a man who went to Sweden years ago and brought a bunch of magnetite back. He breaks
it up in little pieces and puts it in little things for people to wear around their neck. He calls
it North Star. He has been selling these chips for $50 dollars for years and years. There is just a
little tiny chip in there. He sells them to change people’s appearance, makes them feel better,
makes them feel healthier. He says it makes them lucky at gambling and that crap.

Phil: It won’t help with gambling, but it will make them feel better when they lose their money.

Joe: Yeah, it made them feel better after they lost their money.

Phil: You can’t win on gambling. The casinos have it set up so you can’t win.

Joe: They have a mathematical certainty there. I had a friend who used to work for the airlines. He
said they had crashes that would come out around Las Vegas and that other place up there. They had
to guard the planes as they were coming in because the people had a lot of money on them. When a
plane went down and people were going out of there, there was no one and anything left, not even
wrist watches.

Phil: I was talking to a casino guy one time who told me some guy came in there thinking he was
smart. He was also looking for magnetism. He could just come in with a paramagnetic rock and mess
them up.

Joe: They have spent fortunes, the Ross Club spent about half a million dollars to try to give the
people a false sense of security to make them feel good. They experimented with lights. They found
that blue and green lights were out.


Phil: They made you too energetic.

Joe: Gold tuned people down. They also found they could put magnetite in various different papers
and around the place and found that people were calmer. One thing that Bobo and Mike Schell did was
experimentation for NASA. You remember when John Glenn went up then returned with what was called a
magnetic defciency? He busted his head falling down, etc. They found out that all the astronauts
that go up now have magnetic oxide inside their suits in order to keep down the defciency. Linemen,
who are working on high voltage electricity, now they are incorporating magnetic iron oxide in
their clothing.

Phil: They are all wearing a shatnez now. It is a paramagnetic vest. It stimulates the immune
system. It gets your immune system so high that nothing can touch you. Like I said, just carry a
paramagnetic rock in our pocket and you would be healthy all your life.

Joe: Once I got your CGS meter on the Arizona rock, then I could go where the quartz and the magnet
run together. It went around at eddies, where the water would turn and the heavy parts would fall
out. I would mine the stuff right there. At that point, I could get every single one of them and
put them in the meter and they would be 19,000 plus.

Phil: Sure, well the meter only went up to forty or something.

Joe: It came by the number ten. The last one that came by said ten magnifcation. I got a couple of
those. I had to clean off the tape before I got that one.

Phil: The frst one only went up to 2,000. I got calls back from people, especially out here where the soil is 2,000. They couldn’t hardly use it, because it was already at 2,000. So I had to redesign it and bring it up to 40,000 or whatever it is now. I didn’t have any trouble changing. I got an electro-engineer who just switched the lead circuits in it. The biggest commercial meters cost $6,000. They said it was because it was so hard to wind the coils. I found out you could send to Germany and get the coils wound for $50.00 each.

Joe: The frst one I ever saw was from Patrick Flanagan. He bought it from some German company. He had $6,000 in it. When I got one of yours, it was better than his.

Phil: Mine was a lot better than the commercial ones. Bob Pike was an engineer. He took my circuit design and put it together perfectly.

Joe: Christopher Bird did a story on this. The last thing he was going to do was he was going to put together a water fltration deal. He believed that paramagnetics was the answer to the water.

Phil: When was the date of that trial?

Joe: I’ve got it all at home.

Phil: I would have been there and done those people in.

Joe: I believe you would have. Bruce Halstead gave me that out of his own library. He signed his name.

Phil: He signed it. This is great. This is from a private library. Let’s see what the date is on it. Private library 1991, that’s over ten years ago. I knew it had been out for quite some time.

Joe: He incorporated paramagnetics in some of the things he was doing in the last part. He believed that by using DMSO, paramagnetics and camphor, you could stimulate the immune system from the outside of the skin to the inside. You didn’t have to inject anything.

Phil: You didn’t have to inject it because the DMSO goes directly into your skin.

Joe: The last thing Halstead did was introduce oxygen to DMSO to oxygenate it. When he oxygenated
it, it took the taste away and it didn’t have that crappy taste. They changed it to MSM.

Phil: I can take this paramagnetic dirt and put it in something that tastes real lousy and it would
come out tasting good. It always switches it from a bad taste to a good one.

Joe: I can take water and put it inside the hyperbaric chamber, bring it up to three atmospheres
and leave it there overnight. When you cap the water and take it out, it is living water.

Phil: The ancients knew a lot about this as a healing thing. All the old stone circles and stone
structures, I need to write a book about them because I have photographs of them. I have copies of
these stone structures. They are all around.

Joe: When you put a person in the hyperbaric chamber, it is an iron chamber, you are getting the
orgone effect too. You can take the magnetic iron oxide crystal, lay it in the sun, a pad of them,
and put them inside the chamber with you, with quartz crystals in those and let the sun charge
them. I found out when you take them out of there, you always have to put them under an ultraviolet
light to get off any sweat or anything that’s coming off of the person. It could smell real bad
because you sweat. You put them back in the chamber with them and raise it up and let them breathe
pure oxygen. Man, you’ve got them going.

Phil: It makes them smell sweet again.

Joe: What do you think about putting people on a teaspoon full of magnetite or a few capsules of
magnetite before you put them in the chamber?


Phil: I think that would probably triple or quadruple the effect of the chamber. Paramagnetism
amplifes whatever is good and kills whatever is bad. Whatever poisons are in your body, it does
away with and whatever is good, it enhances. It enhances all the vitamins in the body. But if you
have some arsenic from the soil or something that’s not too good for you, it gets rid of it. If you
go back and read the old literature, you begin to understand that Easter Island, where the big
statures are.. those are healing statues. The body is a natural antenna. The statue is a natural
antenna. You can put a small amplifer on it and pick up a radio signal a lot better than you can
with a metal antenna. The statue is like a natural antenna.

Joe: That doctor from Japan, Higgins’ friend, has found the structured water. Your mind can
structure to water. Dr. Tori told me that your mind has to be present and you have to have the
right thoughts in order to structure the water. There is a doctor in France at the Pasteur
Institute whose name was Jacques Benefste. He wrote a book on water called “The Memory of Water”.

Phil: I’ve heard of the book.

Joe: I spent ten days with him in Hawaii where we talked about this for a long time. It got to
where he can speak pretty good English. We got along really well. He was telling me that when you
magnetize the water, the water can take on its memories. But, if you distill the water and it is
completely dead, then you don’t have the living properties of the water.

Phil: That’s right. If you distil it, there is nothing in it. It’s just pure H2O and it is not what
nature had in mind. Water is flled with minerals and vitamins and many other things. If a butterfy
wants to live a long time, it stops at a muddy puddle and takes a drink. You’ll always fnd
butterfies all around the country where it’s drying out and there are mud puddles.. flled with


Joe: But you won’t fnd them drinking the water that’s in a stream.

Phil: No, they won’t drink the stream water at all. They will always drink from the mud puddles.
They won’t go near a clear stream.

Joe: Like the people in India, the pregnant women that take these little mud balls.

Phil: Well, not so long ago, my mother who died at 89 was really quite healthy. During her
pregnancy, she would go dig some clay out of the garden and eat it. She was part Indian. That’s why
we are shaped the way we are. My ancestors founded New Mexico. (San Juan) He was the frst governor
of New Mexico.

Joe: A few years back we did the whole de Anza Trail.

Phil: This was my great great great grandfather. Everybody said well he wasn’t even married. Well,
of course not.. he had a couple of Indian squaws and didn’t bother getting married. He was quite a
character. He was a Colonel in the Spanish army that came over to Mexico City, came north up the de
Anza Trail to settle in Santa Fe. He’s my great great great grandfather.

Joe: Those pressurized balls. I call them the Langévin balls because Paul Langévin is the one that
actually showed you how. If you want to put them under pressure, you just dry them. I use pascalite
clay as the binder. I place a drop of sodium silicate on a disk that’s laying on an angle.. going
around and around. That’s why they’re different sizes. Then I drop the magnetite and I have been
sonically grinding sapphites that I got from India. I get them at the rock show in Tucson. I grind
them up and mix them in it. That makes them very hard. If you take a ball like that and rake it
across glass, it will score it just like a diamond.

Phil: I take paramagnetic rock and mix it with Elmer’s glue to bind it. The glue is diamagnetic and the rock is paramagnetic, so you have the perfect medium.

Joe: Elmer’s glue is a hoof glue isn’t it?

Phil: Yeah, Elmer’s glue is made out of hooves. It’s made out of horses hooves. They used to use
horses for dog food and the hooves for glue.

Joe: So you get the yin and the yang.

Phil: You have got the yin and the yang. Elmer’s glue is one of the best things to make anything.
You can mix paramagnetic rock with Elmer’s glue and make statues.

Joe: If you took magnetite, a little bit of quartz and Elmer’s glue, and painted over a house, you
would actually have a Faraday cage, wouldn’t you?

Phil: Yeah, that’s actually what this is. (Phil scratches the wall). It’s slightly paramagnetic. So
this house is a real energetic house. It’s very relaxing.

Joe: It’s a Faraday cage. This is something I didn’t tell you. The old Spaniards when they were
making the adobes, they killed animals and what they’d do is lure them in with salt licks. When
they killed the animals, they would take the blood out and mix it in the adobes. Now, you have a
paramagnetic adobe block.

Phil: There’s all of the round towers in Ireland. If you go back and read about the monks in
ancient Latin, they always mixed the cement with oxen blood. They would take six or seven oxen to
build a round tower and slaughter them to put it all into the mortar. Those towers are sitting on
the ground with no foundation or anything and have been standing


there for ffteen hundred years. There are still forty of them left. Most of them have been struck
by lightening. There were originally about a hundred and ffty of them. Forty remain in perfect
condition. They have been sitting on the ground with no foundation or anything for that long.

Joe: It’s almost antigravity, isn’t it?

Phil: Antigravity. It is. The force of the paramagnetism in the oxygen reacts with the force of the
paramagnetism in the earth.

Joe: So, in earthquake country, if you poured your foundation with magnetite in it, it would never

Phil: It would never fall. There are tower houses in Japan and also in Ireland and England which
would be damaged in earthquakes. But the tower houses never fall down.

Joe: What if they took these piers and the bridges and put a shell around the outside of them using
magnetite impregnated cement?

Phil: It would make it a lot stronger. It would stand up a lot better in an earthquake. That’s what
they should do in San Francisco.

Joe: I was looking for gold in Brazil and ran into Bruce Halstead who was there looking for green
medicine. You, however, were down there just for the pure science aspect.

Phil: Yeah, I was just down there learning about the headhunters. I already knew a little bit about
them, but I learned a lot more about them. They were well aware of paramagnetism. They had a magic
word for it. They knew all about it.

Joe: Some of those women down there knew all about poisons.


Phil: Oh Go, yeah. They had drugs down there. They could take drugs out of a plant and you wouldn’t
know what it was.

Joe: Have you ever noticed how the men treat their women when they all know of about those poisons?

Phil: Yeah.

Joe: They treat them real nice. No one is beating anyone.

Phil: They have great respect for their women. There is none of this tribal stuff that goes on as
with some tribes where women are second rate. With the headhunters, the women are equal with the
men. The men consider them their equals. The ones I knew were called the Ashiari and they were
remarkable. I guess I was the frst one to ever come across them. I came across them at the
Hagramona River which means River of the Tapers. I got in the canoe. My wife never worries about
me, but everyone else was telling her, “He’s not going to come back. He’s not going to come back.”
She just laughed. She thought it was funny. She knew darn well I was coming back because the
headhunters were the friendliest people. In fact, they were over friendly. They couldn’t do enough
for you. They were so friendly it was nauseating. They were always around you doing something for

Joe: I told his wife one time about you that you’re a very even tempered person. I’ve never seen
you get mad. She said, “Just make your card out. Just mention Monsanto to him.”

Phil: Yeah, they have probably done more to destroy people in this country than anyone else.
They’re a big corporation.

Joe: What do you think about these new genes that they’re trying to make calling them “terminator


Phil: All that research is just funded by the devil is what it is. There is a devil, and it is
funded by the devil. It’s evil spirits in Indian literature.

Joe: You took a picture one time of a little old man or woman praying in the church with the light
rays coming through the window that bent. I never could understand what bent.

Phil: Well, the light coming through travels in a straight line, but it’s traveling through oxygen.
When people get into a meditative state, they become so highly paramagnetic it pulls the oxygen
down. The only way you can see light is if it has particles in it. So light has to have particles
of dust, which means the light beam carries paramagnetic properties. You cannot see a laser beam if
there is no dust or smoke in the air. So the dust or smoke, or whatever it is, is paramagnetic. So,
when someone starts praying, it kind of bends it down. There is a scientifc explanation for all of
this stuff. What the ancients called “magic” is a science.

Joe: What do you think about all these paintings of the saints depicted with auras around their
bodies? Do you think that is paramagnetic?

Phil: Yeah, sure it is. They are so close to God, that their brains actually give off photon
coherent light. Because it is coherent, it is real bright. You’ll notice that although it is
painted as yellow in pictures, it is never really yellow, it is white. It is perfectly white as
white as this wall. It is pure rays of white light.

Joe: This lady that was in India, Mother Theresa, she came to Phoenix and I went up and looked at
her. I don’t know if it was just me, or the way the light was, but it looked like she had a
radiance around her.

Phil: Yeah, I met her assistant and the assistant had the same sort of radiance around her. She had
a blue and white gown on.

Joe: The Dahli Lama comes to Tucson every once in a while. He has a feld and two or three of the people around him that are real close have it.

Phil: Where is he living?

Joe: Well, he stays in California a lot. He has a colony in Tucson at Catalina and they come through. He was very close to a fellow that did a lot of research on Reis monkeys and imported all
the Reis monkeys during the test. His name was Tom Slick. Have you ever heard of Tom Slick? He owned the Flying Tigers and the Young General (inaudible). He was killed in a plane crash. But he was working on this paramagnetic iron with me for a while. While he was alive, I got a thousand dollars a month every month to experiment to teach with it. We got very close.

Phil: He was quite a guy. I didn’t realize he was killed.

Joe: He was killed in a plane crash just outside of Phoenix. The thing I handed you there, on the
last part was a little bit about us when he was working in Tucson.

Phil: He was a stunt flyer.

Joe: He did a little of everything. He was a wealthy old man on his own. He would have a big circus
tent down in Dallas and he would invite all kinds of nutty people. They would come in and he would
have his secretary go around and take notes on what they were talking about. There were some real
nuts. There were some guys who were going to build boats made out of ice. They were really way out.

Phil: They had a big party and everybody was drinking and there were all kinds of good food.

Joe: He was sort of a lesser well known “Howard Hughes”. You’ve got a couple of hummingbirds that
went right by the window.

28 l Part One

Phil: Yeah, we have a feeder out there. They head for it.

Joe: Halstead was into birds. When he died, he had probably fifty different birds, big birds in
cages from all over including South America. The kids divided them all up and took them to other
places. They made a lot of noise and I don’t know if any of them survived. I think there were a few
in the cage at the Center. He never got into computerization. He did all his work by longhand and
typed things out.

Phil: That’s like me. I’ve never used a computer.

Joe: He has hundreds of thousands of things on record that he has done in his lifetime. Every time
I go over there, I take $400 or $500 and they let me take anything out that I want and copy it.
I’ve copied everything on HBO [hyperbaric oxygen]. I’ve copied almost everything they had
on cancer. I’ve copied all of Royal Rife’s stuff. I’ve copied all of Gersten’s stuff. I’ve copied
everything he had on the fles. When I die, they’re going to have a party or a yard sale. None of my
kids are interested in any of that. I can’t get any of them interested in it. They go to college,
they get an education, and they’re school teachers. And you know something Doctor, they will make
of fip doing that. But the teachers aren’t teachers anymore.

Phil: That’s not true. My son is fascinated by this stuff. One of my daughter’s is too. She teaches
English in Mexico City. She’s fascinated by it.

Joe: What’s happening to the general public is what I’m talking about.
I’m talking about everybody, my own kids.

Phil: I don’t know. It’s TV. They put the same thing on. I sit there and watch TV and after about
10 minutes, I get up and come in here and start reading because it’s the same thing over and over
and over. It’s all violence. There’s so much violence in this country.. that’s called imprinting.
They are imprinting people with all of this.


Joe: I think anyone who has ever read the complete works of O’Henry has seen every damn TV program that has ever been on.

Phil: Yeah, there was no plot that he didn’t plot. If you read O’Henry, you’ve got all of them. But on TV it’s the same thing over and over again. It gets boring watching it after a while. CSI is not
too bad because it’s a good detective story. They ought to go back to Sherlock Holmes.

Joe: And yet, he was on drugs.

Phil: Yeah, he was on drugs. He was a cocaine addict. Sherlock Holmes was the character, and
O’Connell actually wrote it. O’Connell was a drug addict, so of course he had to put Sherlock
Holmes on drugs too.

Joe: I don’t think drugs are as bad as tobacco. I think tobacco is the worst thing in the world.

Phil: I agree with you. It killed my father. He was a chain smoker. He was an old cowboy and would
roll his own. He came from Terre Haute, Indiana, but he spent most of his life in Texas and New
Mexico. He was a car salesman and all of his customers were cowboys. He was a cowboy himself. He
was a great rider. He had a horse called “Big Red” that could jump a ten foot fence. He was in the
army cavalry. He died in 1963 from smoking. He kept smoking cigarettes all his life. He rolled his
own and smoked them and finally got heart trouble then died.

Joe: Well, I think tobacco is one of the worst things there is. It kills four hundred thousand a
year at least.

Phil: Oh yeah, at least it’s gone way down because the young people don’t smoke like they used to.
When I was growing up, everybody smoked except for me.

Joe: I went to Salem, South Carolina and went to a factory there to see


how they were making tobacco. They don’t do it the way they used to. They take the whole stalk, the
stem and everything and they throw it in a shaker and shake the stuff off of it and grind it all
up. Then they run it like newspaper through rollers. They save the juice that’s squeezed out, take
shredded newspaper and add the juice back to it at the levels needed. They have stuff in barrels
from Turkey that is also added. They call it deer tongue. Then they spray it with petroleum so it
won’t go off. Then they favor it with brown sugar to make it sweet. These people don’t even know
what they’re getting.

Phil: No, they’re getting a big mixture of poisons.

Joe: Every bug in the world avoids tobacco. But, when a commercial poison doesn’t work, they just
add another one and another one and another one. They have four or fve poisons on them.

Phil: Sure, it’s a conglomeration of ffty or sixty poisons.

Joe: And all these bugs can build up an immunity to this stuff.

Phil: It’s really bad to inhale cigarettes. Cigars are not so bad because they’re pretty natural.
They just take the tobacco and roll it up. But even that is not right anymore because now they
spray the tobacco with chemicals. The FDA said they had to quit spraying tobacco because the
insecticides are ruining the biological controls. The insecticide business has been done in by
people like me. It’s all biologically controlled now.

Joe: What about mad cow? Do you think it’s just a mineral defciency?

Phil: It’s parathian poisoning. The cure for the warble fy was to take parathian and rub it into
the wound. Think how stupid that is. Parathian is a censroide, which means your nervous system goes
kaput. Censroide is the chemical that keeps your nerve endings working. So if you foul up your censroides, you become a nervous wreck. Someday they’ll learn about Parkinson’s disease with
these people. It’s probably from messed up censestorids from smoking.

Joe: I’ll get you some paperwork. I met Dr. Joel Wallach. He wrote “Dead Doctors Don’t Lie”. He was
a veterinarian who said, “If I treated people the way the doctors taught me to treat them, as a
medical doctor, I would be out of business. If you couldn’t treat arthritis and you couldn’t treat
Alzheimer’s in a cow, the cow is unable to access medicinal food. I do real good with the animals
that I treat.” He’s done a paper on Alzheimer’s and he’s getting me a copy. I’m getting to be slow
on memory.

Phil: Sure, I am too.

Joe: Sometimes I’ll get out driving and go right past the place where I’m supposed to go. And I’m
thinking about something else.

Phil: You’re thinking about something something else is why.

Joe: But I am getting slower. I had a heart problem and they put two stints I me. They cut me open
and put them in. The doctor said I had a heart that was young as hell, but it was just blocked off.
And that’s the way I’m eating. But I think if I had enough paramagnetics in me, I don’t think I
would have ever had heart trouble.

Phil: That’s right. What I think you need to do if you have heart trouble is to start taking a
teaspoon of paramagnetic dust every day and that would get rid of it. Put it in your orange juice.

Joe: Should it be really finely ground magnetite, or should it be just coarse stuff?

Phil: It’s better coarse really, because it’s more like an antenna. But it doesn’t make that
much difference. On the CGS meter it might be a difference of one CGS or something like that, but not enough to make that much difference.

Joe: Well I’ve got that 19,000 stuff. I don’t think it will hurt me.

Phil: No, no. It would cure your heart trouble. Put it in your orange juice. It goes good in orange

Joe: I don’t know if I told you about this, but I made some solar stills for distilling water. I
put magnetic iron oxide in the bottom of the stills. After a year or two the calcium will form on
the iron. You take it out, pour little vinegar over it, clean it up then put it right back in. With
these little tiny points sticking up in the air and when the sun shines in on the water, the vapor
seems to break up and you can get twice as much water.

Phil: Sure, You have an ultrasonic condition taking place. When I start running the water, the
birds nearby start talking and singing because the ultrasonics comes from the water. Parrot owners
don’t know that. Some parrots will talk once in a while just to imitate sounds, but you can get a
parrot to talk a blue streak by putting some ultrasonics near it. Birds hear by ultrasonics.

Joe: Now, if you take a disk with lots of quartz and a little electricity and put it in water, the
water will broadcast it throughout the room.

Phil: When you turn a faucet on, it’s ultrasonically dynamic because the water runs past a metal
faucet which creates a lot of ultrasonics. If you take the bird in the bathroom and turn the faucet
on, it will start talking.

Joe: If you take the water and iron oxide tape, like an audio videotape and you record the water,
you have the frequencies. If you play that for the bird, it would do the same thing, wouldn’t it?

Phil: Yep, it would make the bird sing all day long.


Joe: I have a whole set of tuning forks. I record each of the tuning forks. I can take the tuning
fork and make it work with another fork over here. I can make a tape of that tuning fork and play
it turned up and amplifed and it will do the same thing because it’s the same frequency. And that’s
what scares me. Benefste said he can replicate the same frequency of opium from Los Angeles and
broadcast it over the telephone and make a guy go higher than a kite in New York.

Phil: Sure, everything is a frequency. That’s all it is. You can record anything you want and make
it do good, or make it do bad. People were tortured just by having a drop of water hit a certain
surface which creates a certain sonic sound that would drive people crazy. They have been tortured
with a drop of water creating an ultrasonic frequency just by hitting the right surface.

Joe: Well, I think the understatement of the year was, “The author frmly believes that this work is
his most important and he can save agriculture worldwide. By Dr. Phil Callahan.” I think that says
it all.

Phil: Yep, yep. Well a lot of people are still buying that book.

Joe: I buy them by the case. Once in a while, the ones you have autographed for me get away. This
one hasn’t even been signed. You can sign it for me.

Phil: I can sign it right now.

Joe: I try to keep them at home. I buy them by the case from you. I put them out all over. I have a half dozen at these at the Biosphere where they were working up there. A couple of Chinese Ph.D.s
were working up there and they took this book back to China with them. That’s why they are ordering paramagnetics from me. They are starting a place in Loma, China, which is very similar to Arizona. They are putting a big glass dome over in China. You’ve signed almost all my books. I’ve got every book you ever put out. Thank you. You’ve got some books you haven’t published.

Phil: I’ve got a whole stack of books around here somewhere.

Joe: Oh, I have to share with you another thing. Dr. Halstead, during the last part of his life,
wrote a book on coral calcium. A whole book. He sent it to me and I read the transcript then wrote
back to him. By then it had gone to print. I said that if you take the coral calcium and blow it
apart with sound instead of pulverizing it the mineral will be cellularly assimilated. It wouldn’t
hurt to add a little lignites and iron oxide. He followed through with the suggestion and reported
that the growth on the stuff, as well as the animals that he fed it to, were unbelievable. The
stuff assimilated. It didn’t pass right through the system.

Phil: The funny thing is when you tell that to a veterinarian, they go right home and use it. When
you tell that to an M.D., they look at you like you’re crazy. The vet will go right home and go to
work on it.

Joe: So, most of these medicines that we’re making are beaten, hammered, ground and compounded. The
vitamins and minerals are ruined. It’s so easy to blow them apart. Tesla was the one that started
using sound to blow apart minerals. Tesla almost collapsed an entire building down with a police
whistle.. sound!

Phil: Tesla and Wilhelm Reich were the two geniuses with this sort of thing. They didn’t know the
physics of it, but they knew what they were doing.

Joe: I did not get to meet Tesla. I went up there when I was a young kid, and he didn’t like kids.
I was trying and he didn’t want anything to do with me. But Wilhelm Reich came to Tucson and lived
with me for 18 months during the last part of his life. His son was my age and we got along really
well. He wrote a couple of things. You’ll read a little in that paper about Wilhelm Reich.

Phil: Wilhelm Reich was a psychiatrist and he loved children. Tesla was a loner.

Joe: In fact, any money Wilhelm Reich made was supposed to go in a children’s protection fund. Now,
he’s been dead ffty years as of this year. He said the last part of his research would not be able
to be made public until the fftieth year. So, I’m going to go back to Rainley, Maine where there’s
a lady that’s in charge of the center. I’ll copy everything that I can get. I usually drag Marilyn
around with me to see that I get where I am going. God, she’s put up with me for ffty years. People
around Tucson call her Saint Marilyn.

Phil: Well, my wife’s put up with me for ffty-four years. Like everybody said, she married a

Joe: You met your wife in England?

Phil: Ireland.

Joe: You learned so much in Ireland about the salt and paramagnetics.

Phil: I learned a lot of from the old stone structures. I used to spend my time going around painting pictures.

Joe: You and Christopher Bird had the same kind of exposure in England. He was running the tower stations trying to redirect the airplanes and he was putting those things out.

Phil: I did the same thing actually. I was a Navigational Aides Expert and so was he.

Joe: He told me one time that they sent him to Germany to do some espionage over there. He went to France. Somebody was going to send in a bunch of plastic explosives. They made a mold in the form of lobsters. Some idiot had the idea to make them red. As they unloaded the lobsters off the boat, the Germans realizing the peculiarity of tossing out cooked lobsters ended up killing everybody on the boat. A lobster doesn’t turn red until you cook it.

Phil: You have to cook it to turn red. They knew something was wrong.

Joe: So, the Germans killed everybody there. He said he just barely got out alive. Whenever I got to talk to Christopher Bird, he was always interested in what you were doing. A lot of times I
didn’t know what you were doing because you didn’t talk much about anything.

Phil: Well, I never talked much about World War II until I would get the Medal of Honor. I was an
unoffcial spy. I sent data back to the OSS before it was the CIA and the German’s occupied France.
(points to a picture) In fact, that’s one of these airplanes. A B-26.

Joe: Do you do your own artwork?

Phil: Oh yeah, this is mine.

Joe: That’s beautiful.

Phil: This is all mine. I just fnished these for the book. That’s a ship that went down.

Joe: Art Brown did a lot of his work too.

Phil: This is a hen harrier. It depends on if you want to kill birds, rats or mice. That was the
best falcon I ever had. I would hunt rats and mice with him because what would I want to kill a
bird for? The hen harrier is a large bird. I would go around a farm and kick the haystacks so rats
would come out.. the falcon would get them. We call it a marshal in this country. They call it a
hen harrier over there… same bird found all over the world.

Joe: Roy Davis told me about the birds in the Everglades getting iron oxide in their brains for
sensing direction. He studied that for a long time and he found out that the gray Spanish moss
growing on the trees have an affnity for iron oxide. The moss takes it into the plants. The birds
would eat the berries off the Spanish moss and that’s how they get the magnetite into their system.

Phil: That’s exactly true, because I’ve seen them eating those berries. They’re getting all the
good stuff from the Spanish moss that goes into those berries. I’m going to publish a book that’s
mostly paintings.

Joe: Halstead worked closely with fish and the ocean. He put some huge books together because he had
an oceanography degree, but he was still interested in birds. There’s not a lot of difference
between birds and fish.

Phil: Birds are actually reptiles. That’s why they have scales on their legs.

Joe: Did you ever see any of Gould’s books out of England? The books are worth a fortune now.

Phil: Come here, I’ll show you something.

Joe: Gould taught me a lot about looking for minerals.

Phil: Did you ever meet him?

Joe: No, never met him. I met people that met him. Those books are selling for thousands now, did
you know that? Gould wrote about how birds can lead you to minerals. The Gould stuff is selling for
a fortune.

Marilyn: Let Dr. Callahan talk a little bit too.


Joe: Go ahead. I want you to talk.

Marilyn: He does those? Those were beautiful.

Phil: This is a hen harrier, which is a bird of Ireland.

Marilyn: That’s right, I remember reading in your book that you like birds.

Phil: I’m getting a Medal of Honor, so I fgured I better write a book.
This is my old B-26 that I few. I was a radio gunner, but I few it too.

Joe: He’s a hell of an artist, isn’t he?

Marilyn: That bird is beautiful.

Joe: Marilyn, why don’t you sit down here and direct a little bit and get him to talk about

Marilyn: You had things you were going to ask him. Are you running out of stuff?

Phil: A lot of what you see around here is stuff I’ve done. That’s an old German legend. That cross
there is (inaudible) and that’s a redheaded woodpecker which is common in Louisiana. It’s not too
common around here, although I’ve seen one or two. That’s my golden eagle I trained as I would a

Joe: You actually were able to train it?

Phil: Oh yeah, I found the eagle. I had it for about 10 years. Finally, I had to move temporarily
and I couldn’t keep the eagle in an apartment. So, I donated it to the New Orleans Zoo. It must be
forty years old now. It’s in the New Orleans zoo and still alive. They live to be 50 or 60 years
old, but that eagle is still alive in the zoo. At least he was a year ago. (points) Those are in my
paintings there. The painting of the Indian is not mine. That was painted by Yazu. He was one of
the great Indian painters.

Joe: Birds have a close relationship to man, more than we realize. The canaries were used in the
mines to warn the men when there were dangerous levels of carbon monoxide.

Phil: They always took with them a canary. If they got too much methane, and the canary would keel
over, they would take the canary and leave.

Joe: What do you think about these new bio-toxins that Halstead was developing? Do you think that
it would be better to use birds to check them rather than men?


Phil: Nothing can poison a bird or a snake. I used to have a little grass snake, a cave snake,
about that long. It looks a little bit like a rattlesnake. They don’t lay eggs like most snakes,
but give birth to live snakes. It was really funny because they got out of their cage once and all
these little ones got out.

Joe: Did you experiment with snakes on bio-toxins?

Phil: Yeah, and I did infrared experimentation with them. Their tongues could detect the heat.

Joe: Can a snake and a bird detect poisoned water and food?

Phil: Oh yeah, you can’t poison a bird. If there are no birds around the water, you know it’s no

Joe: You could pour that water over iron oxide and it would be free of poison.

Phil: Yeah, that’s what I did in World War II. When I wanted a drink of water, and I would have a
rock in my pocket and I would throw it into the canteen and drink it. I never got sick. You just
throw a bunch of paramagnetic rocks in the canteen. I could take rocks out of any old ditch, put it
in polluted water and have water. I was a radio commando and I had to have water. You can live a
week without food, but you have to have water.

Joe: So you dropped your paramagnetics into your canteen and you had water. Now why don’t they put
a couple of these paramagnetic balls in the water canteens for every soldier?


Phil: Sure. That’s why, in some ways, God has taken care of things. On Memorial Day, I’m going to
be on TV. I’m going to be in Washington with the President and getting my Medal of Honor. So, I’m
going to tell everyone about paramagnetism. Then it will catch on like wildfire because someone with
a Medal of Honor will be up there telling them about it and they will believe. The doctors will
even start to believe.

Joe: Paramagnetics is God’s gift to man. Why don’t you tell about the statues you drilled holes in
the bottom and flled with paramagnetics? (To Marilyn) He carries it in his pocket all the time.
I’ve never seen him when he hasn’t got it in his pocket.

Phil: I’ve had this in my pocket ever since the Army. It’s filled with paramagnetic rock. It’s a novel statue and it’s filled with paramagnetic rock. I never catch a cold or get sick or anything.

Joe: Notice the parallels between Dr. Callahan and Dr. Vogel. They were both very religious. In that one article I gave you today, he put the paramagnetic iron, the magnetite iron in oil. He sat
down and he looked at it and looked at it and he kept thinking about the Virgin Mary and it formed in the oil. It’s in that article. It’s unbelievable.

Marilyn: You remember that guy that used to come to Tucson? I believe his name was Richard. He put magnetite in ballpoint pen cases and carry them.

Phil: Yeah, I remember that. Vogel and Reich did the same thing too.

Joe: I still have a Wilhelm Reich box in Tucson.

Marilyn: Oh, you do?

Phil: I’ve built one and it works real good.


Joe: He used rusty iron oxide coming off of steel wool and stuff like that. I found you’re a lot better off to go to the pure oxide from the iron and take the magnetic iron oxide from magnetite,
or black paramagnetic sand.

Phil: When I was in Ireland, I would take a rusty tin can, scrape all the rusty iron oxide off the tin can. About the same time, Elmer’s glue came out during the war. I would mix it with the pure
iron oxide. I had a little peanut tube and I would use a big square of that and power my own radio. I would carry it behind the hedgerows to make sure no one was following me.

Joe: He told me that Elmer’s glue, which is the hoof of a horse and is diamagnetic, and iron oxide which is paramagnetic, and mix them together, you have the perfect deal.

Phil: You’ve got the perfect yin and yang. The Chinese knew all about yin and yang. They knew that plants were diamagnetic and rocks were paramagnetic.

Joe: Well, fve thousand years ago, they were using paramagnetics for their compasses.

Phil: The frst compass used had paramagnetic rock. They actually foated. It would foat even though
it was rock, it was in diamagnetic water and the paramagnetic property of it repelled to keep it

Joe: Well, I don’t know. He’s learned so much. He’s talked about the pads that he made to wear out
of magnetic iron oxide, clay and salt water. Why was the salt water from sea salt so important?

Phil: Because it has every natural element that you need for your body. In other waters, salt water
is the same as your blood. Salt water is just blood without hemoglobin. That’s why they can
substitute saline solution for blood sometimes.

Joe: I’ve got another one to share with you that’s really unbelievable. I’ve taken seaweed, compressed it. Used it for a filter and I can get stuff out of water that doesn’t even assay. This
filter will take out minerals, ionics, and colloidals. It will take them all. All you have to do is wash the stuff and clean it up and you can use it over and over again.

Phil: That’s all they used on the coast of Ireland. It’s almost impossible now because of the chemical companies, but in the old days, that’s all they used. They would collect the seaweed left
up on the shore which is what this little vial is. It’s carrying turp and it’s carrying seaweed too. That’s turp which they cut in the bog and burned for the bark.

Joe: That turp that they burn is mosslike and it is very close to being lignite.

Phil: That’s why the old Irish islanders were so healthy. They were burning something close to lignite. It didn’t have the sulfur and so didn’t ruin your lungs.

Joe: Marilyn, he just said he mixes the iron oxide magnetite with Elmer’s glue and paints it on the wall. It creates a faraday cage. It’s a very healthy house, very healthy. There’s no stray magnetic

Phil: That’s an easy way to do it. Just plaster your walls with it.

Marilyn: He likes the möbius. He puts them all around.

Phil: Sure.

Joe: He’s saying that the möbius is made with these plastics. And audio videotape records all this imagery on them and those are good, but he’s saying that Elmer’s glue is even better.


Phil: You can grind up rock and mix it with Elmer’s glue then make just about anything you want. You can make a statue out of it or anything you want. I usually just buy a plastic statue and fll
it with paramagnetic rock, but you could actually make a statue out of it. Other uses you can use it for would be to place it in the in every room of the house if you’re under high voltage power
lines. Spikes that occur with sixty cycle alternating currents are known as rougue electricity and it wreaks havoc with the body’s electromagnetic balance. Magnetite around the house keeps the body in balance electro-magnetically.

Joe: Black Mountain, between Phoenix and Tucson, is primarily paramagnetic rock. Every winter it rains or sometimes snows. The mountain ices over and breaks it up. Then the sediment comes down as black sand. The further they go down, the finer they get. At the base of the mountain, paramagnetic rock has turned into pretty good sized crystals. Then about fifteen miles away they become very fine

Phil: I’ll bet there is good plant life at the bottom of the mountain.

Joe: Oh, you can’t believe the plant growth in there. Now, that’s another thing I want to talk to you about. How does the magnetic iron oxide enhance the soil to the point that you can get by with
less water?

Phil: Well, that’s what happens around here with all this soil around here. Look how green everything is.. these trees. Everything is really green around here, and yet, we only get about
twelve inches of rain a year. That twelve inches is like sixty inches in Florida because the paramagnetic soil holds the water. Instead of the water evaporating in two or three hours, the
water evaporates in two, three or four days. If you have a puddle of water around here, it takes it days and days for it to evaporate.

Joe: The trees pick up this colloidal and ionic iron. Does that increase their ability to take the water through their cellular fber?


Phil: Yeah. Those little tubules that go up the tree, the smallest one is called a microtubule. They bring the paramagnetic dirt up through them. You can’t grow crops in sand like pure sand on a
beach. You have to have paramagnetism in the soil. All good farm soil has to be paramagnetic. That’s what has been destroyed with chemical farming. The more chemicals you put on, the more you
have to put on.

Joe: I sold ten tons of iron one time to the Goeffe family, remember? They took it back to Intercourse, Pennsylvania. They were Mennonites. They had clay back there that had never grown
anything. They took this magnetite from Arizona and spread it over the clay felds. They took clay that was worthless on its own and turned it into beautiful felds.

Phil: A lot of clay is paramagnetic. But just as much of it isn’t. A lot of clay is just dead mud. When it rains, It’s just dead mud. If you mix paramagnetic rock with it, you have diamagnetism of
the clay and paramagnetism of the rock and you can grow anything in it. My original experiments were just with potted plants. I experimented with how much magnetism to use in each pot. I have
notebooks on that.

Joe: Remember, we did the same thing with Dr. Ricketts. We put paramagnetics in one pot. The paramagnetic plants would be double the size of the other plants.

Marilyn: He did time released photos of them too.

Phil: Yeah, time lapse photography shows as a great demonstration of the growth.

Marilyn: Maybe we ought to do a video of that.

Joe: I love the old man, but he passed away. He was in his nineties and passed. I can’t get along with the kid. The kid thinks only about money.


Phil: (points) That’s one of the best books I have ever seen. It was written by an English soldier who was captured by the Germans.. he had a pet kestrel. The Germans really treated him good because they never saw a guy with a bird on his shoulder that would just sit there all the time. It’s a great book.

Joe: You read a wide variety of books.

Phil: Yeah, I’ve got a little bit of everything up there.

Marilyn: Have you read “The da Vinci Code”? It’s a new book out.

Joe: Marilyn got that the other day. I gave it to her to read.

Phil: Here is a picture of a paramagnetic tower house. They built a limestone castle on a tower house. It was very energetic. That’s my wife’s and my living room. That’s where I asked her to
marry me. Now it’s been taken over by the tourist bureau, so it’s a hotel now.

Marilyn: She told me you went on a world trip before you got married.

Phil: Yeah, I hiked around the world.

Joe: He had just his deep britches and his overshoes and a few matches in his pocket.

Phil: I had a 20 pound knapsack and a canteen. I carried a change of clothes and some granola bars.

Joe: The prickly pear cactus in Arizona form white matting on them from the cochineal bug. If you pull it off with a knife and rub it on a piece of white paper, it turns to a royal purple color.
It’s used as a dye. But if you reduce it down atomically, you’ll fnd that royal purple contains gold. So, here’s a plant that’s extracting the gold from the soil that’s showing up in the spun
silk of the bug. The Spaniards knew that. They used to take this for dye and send it back to Spain. Then after they broke the coal down, they got all the colors of the rainbow out of the coal.

Marilyn: Now, what is this one here about Christ? I notice it is a Christ like picture.

Phil: That’s the Shroud of Turin. That’s the image that appeared on the shroud. I took that picture. I’m probably the only man that has touched the Tilma of the Virgin of Guadalupe, which is
sacred in this country. On the Shroud of Turin, I was asked to come over and do an infrared study on both of them. I did an infrared study on the Virgin of Guadalupe.

Joe: Was that iron oxide on the Shroud of Turin, or was it red ochre?

Phil: It was iron oxide. Obviously, it came from the soil. What happened was when they laid the body on the shroud, the shroud was a long piece of cloth that folded over his body. On the bottom
shows his back. It is on display now in Italy. It is behind glass so people can view it. Joe: But it didn’t come from the blood of the body, it came from the soil. Is that why people such
as kings and queens in history have been buried in a river?

Phil: Some of it came from blood, like where it was really white. Apparently the water and blood were diamagnetic and repelled the paramagnetic. So, you have a lot of white spots, but the image
itself was red ochre.

Joe: What about these people, these kings and queens in China, South America and even in Africa?
They buried their royalty in red ochre.

Phil: Red ochre is considered a sacred soil. It is a sacred chemical too. It was used for healing
as an ancient herbal.

Joe: But it doesn’t have the healing aspects of magnetite, because magnetite is the end of the
rusting process and ochre is going that way.

Phil: Ochre is going that way, but it doesn’t make that much difference. You can take magnetite or rust from a metal tin can. Iron oxide is just more paramagnetic than red ochre.


Joe: You just get higher CGSs out of the end product. Phil: Right. So, it slowly becomes highly paramagnetic. Joe: Now, the blood itself is paramagnetic.
Phil: Blood itself is paramagnetic, but it’s hard to measure because it’s got so much water in it. If you use the CGS meter, it goes diamagnetic because you’re measuring the water. It’s like a
transistor with trace elements of paramagnetism.

Joe: If you dehydrate the water and put the powdered blood plasma in…

Phil: Then it would be the other way which I have done by letting the water evaporate.

Joe: So you spent a lot of time on the shroud. Phil: Oh yeah. I’ve got a paper on it somewhere.
Joe: I’d like to read that sometime.
Phil: I thought I had an extra copy around here somewhere. I don’t even see one copy of it. I don’t know what I did with it. That’s a Security Service award. I got that for working on paramagnetism. The USDA believed me. I didn’t have any problem with the USDA.

Joe: That’s one of the frst CGS meters?

Phil: No. It’s an antenna. It’s diamagnetic. That’s a coil of string so I can see what I’m using for an antenna on the oscilloscope.

Joe: I bought a deal from Armand Bickell, the old man from Germany.


He did a lot of work for Von Braun and all the people in space. He designed that little thing to crawl around on Mars, an isotope discriminator. I bought one of his meter. I think your meters are
more informative and I paid fve thousand for that.

Phil: Yeah, those things are overpriced. It only takes about ffty to sixty dollars worth of
electronics to put it together. Sosa makes a hundred dollar proft on it and sells it for four
hundred and selling. The more people learn about paramagnetism the better the chance they buy them.

Joe: That fellow, Marshall, bought one. He came out and took one of those little flm canisters, but
then said, “I want all that my truck can haul. I want all I can take”. You know, I used to give the
stuff away. It got too expensive to give away, so I started selling it for a dollar a pound. They
don’t even say a word. When you sell ten tons at a dollar a pound, you’ve made yourself some money.

Phil: You’ve made a lot of money.

Joe: Pays the mortgage.

Phil: But if you’re in the business, you have to.

Joe: But I’ve given it away for years and years.

Phil: Yeah, but you’re getting older, so you need some money set aside so you can stay retired. You can’t travel without money. You couldn’t come here without money. It costs money to travel.

Joe: Damn sure of it. I’ve learned more from you than I have from Dr. Pye or all the people I’ve been really close to in all my life. They were geologists and engineers. They were educated in
schools. But you have a kind of street knowledge. I call it real knowledge.


Phil: Street knowledge is what it is . Nature is my bride. I’m going to write a book and call it “Nature is my Bride”. Nature has been my left hand besides my wife.

Joe: I met Schauberger. Hughes brought him over to Houston and I went down there to talk to him a while. He didn’t speak English well. A lot of it got lost in translation. You and he are on the
same frequencies. He was saying that fsh can actually become paramagnetic and diamagnetic and they can actually levitate. They can go right up a stream. They can go right up a fall. He said they can be in a fow of water going downhill and go right up it.

Phil: Right, foating like a balloon up in the air.

Joe: He said the movement of the tail crates a vortex around the back of it and the water that is pushing them down is pushing them up. It’s all magnetic. He said in the Rhine River at certain
times with the full moon and paramagnetics, rocks on the bottom of the river will actually foat. He had the idea that if you waited for the moon to be in the right position, and use the gravitational
pull of the moon, you can foat big hardwood logs out of a fume serpentined. It could not go in a straight fume, it would have to be broken up some way and serpentined.

Phil: That’s the way the Hindus used to levitate. They would go into a paramagnetic room when the full moon was out. With the force of the moon and the paramagnetic room, they would levitate.
Churches were paramagnetic actually. If you go back and read the literature about some of the people like Saint Bernadette, they actually levitated while in a paramagnetic church. Those gothic
churches in old Ireland were all paramagnetic. They would go into a church made out of stone and get in a meditative state. They would become so highly diamagnetic, they would be totally relaxed. They become almost completely diamagnetic and the church just pulls them up.


Joe: When the paramagnetics in the stones get pressure on the top of them, there is a piezoelectric effect.

Phil: A piezoelectric effect, sure. You’ve got several different forces working. You’ve got the piezoelectric effect. You have the gravitational force being overcome by the force between the
diamagnetism and the paramagnetism. When all these forces get together, you can actually levitate. That’s how the ancient Indians used to levitate.

Joe: Vogel called that the ffth dimension.

Phil: That’s what it is. It’s another dimension when you can levitate. There are still some Indians who can do it. One place they used to do it was in the deserted villages out on the prairies of
India, which were all paramagnetic. I have a picture of one around here somewhere. It is a mosque. A mosque was a great place for Indians to levitate.

Joe: The Hindus built their mosques with a round dome on the top and they established an antenna point

Phil: That’s what this picture is. It’s a round dome with an antenna. The vultures love to sit up there. All the vultures would congregate up there. The Black vulture had about a ten foot wing
span. It would sit up on top of this mosque. All the lepers would congregate inside the Mosque. The Mosque was full of lepers. I went in there and slept for a couple of nights surrounded by lepers
even though leprosy is very contagious.

Joe: Last time, you told me that leprosy was coming from the armadillo.

Phil: That was based on what I told one researcher. I said you ought to look on the pads of the armadillo feet, because armadillo get leprosy. He couldn’t fgure out why on the pad of their feet.
leprosy is a soil bacteria that clings to their feet as they dig the soil.


Joe: Will leprosy grow in paramagnetic soil?

Phil: Oh yeah, that’s a real mess. Leprosy is always at the bottom of that cliff. That cliff is all paramagnetic rock and it washed down to the shore where the leper colony was. The lepers were
ostracized and put down there. Of course, the leprosy got worse and worse because they were down there where the soil was loaded with the bacteria.

Joe: So, the paramagnetics can cause the leprosy and the paramagnetics can cure the leprosy.

Phil: Paramagnetics enhanced the bacteria to the point where anyone that waked barefoot around there would get it. Leprosy is hard to catch until you sustain a cut anywhere the wound makes
contact with the soil organism. The farmers in Hawaii will walk barefoot, but if they cut their foot and walk across that soil, they will catch it. It is a very slow condition.

Joe: You treated this stuff with paramagnetics.

Phil: Yeah, I treat it with paramagnetics. It’s the same old thing. You treat the disease with the disease. It’s a matter of concentrating it in the body and the immune system in the body. The
diamagnetism in the body combined with the paramagnetism of the rock will cure leprosy. You can cure the disease with the disease you might say.

Joe: A frequency.

Phil: A frequency. Yeah. You have a frequency that is out of phase. You have the leprosy frequency and the paramagnetic frequency that is the same frequency, but it is a hundred eighty degrees out of phase, so they cancel.

Joe: Halstead said the reason we are having so much bad water is the fact that the hydrogen bond has changed its alignment.

Phil: It has changed its alignment completely. Probably also a lot of the paramagnetism in the water has been distorted by the water born poisons.

Joe: Won’t running water over paramagnetic crystals realign it?

Phil: It realigns everything. It always gets rid of whatever is bad for life and enhances what is
good. It always works that way.

Joe: Magnetic crystals are all sharp and they have dual polarity.

Phil: Right. They have antennas.

Joe: So, I look at it like if you are trying to clean water with marbles, you’ll never get it
clean. If you have sharp points, you clean it.

Phil: If you have sharp points, you clean it. Right. Which is why, if you take this paramagnetic grain, it’s got billions of little antennas because you have so many little sharp points working to
purify the water.

Joe: I talked to Ryner and two or three other people from Germany, and your book was the reason those people were treating the black forest with paramagnetics. They ground the stuff up and put it on the forest floor. Now why in the hell they do more of it in Germany if they know it works?

Phil: I don’t know.. why don’t they do it here? The farmers tell us to farm with it here. Leave it down the next day because it’s so important. You tell it to the people and there isn’t enough money
involved in it. You buy paramagnetic block for twenty dollars a ton and put it on your farm instead of fife hundred a ton like fertilizer.

Joe: When you were at Acres last few times you were up there. I was out there last few times I was there waiting for you and you didn’t show up.

Phil: Yeah, I’m going to go this year.

Joe: I’ll make it this year.

Phil: I will, I’ll make it this year.

Joe: Some of the Amish people wanted to talk to me about paramagnetics. They take you out to supper. What it means is a crock pot in a motel room, but it’s good food.

Phil: Yeah, it’s good food.

Joe: But anyway they were talking about this and were really disappointed that you didn’t show up this last time. They’re really nice and we talked a lot. Now, they have a bunch of your books..
These Amish people.. they have their own opinion.

Phil: I went to Acres twenty-fve years in a row and I decided well.. but, ah, I need to go up there again because there’s another generation coming along now talking about this generation.

Joe: The fellow that’s running Acres is getting old too.

Phil: Yeah, well Fred is still young. Fred is in his ffties.

Joe: Last time I took him out to lunch he had a little trouble seeing. His eyes are going bad.

Phil: His eyes are going bad, yes. Chuck’s eyes are really bad now and he’s even my age. He’s the
same age as me about eighty-one. Fred’s only fifty-three. He and his wife and so knock on wood. And so I’ll probably go too.

Joe: I used to go to that Conference of Global Science in Denver. Yeah and they had some people up there to talk to. I should fy you over there one of these days to talk to the Breakfast Club.

Phil: I’m free most of the time. Just let me know when. You’ll have to send a car over for me cause I don’t drive anymore, well, if I can help it that is. I drive sometimes, but I let my wife do most
of the driving

Joe: I drive sometimes but still don’t know where I’m goin’.

Phil: Problem is, I haven’t in years. My wife drives most of the time. I don’t really like driving because it’s just, well, the thing is I’ve done so much driving during World War II while I was in
the military. That’s why I walked around the world!

Joe: I let Marilyn drive all the way over here. I see over there you got a book on ants.

Phil: (smiles, and turns to the book) Yeah, I really like ants. That’s a great book.

Joe: I used to go around the ant hills and pick up a magnifying glass and see what was under the ground. Ants bring bring your minerals up around the mound. You’ll see the copper and silver.

Phil: Your mounds are coated with alabaster. You’ll fnd that its coated with pink granite and quartz and ants go around and collect all the quartz and granite and line the whole hill.

Phil Callahan – An Interview With Joe Blankinship l 57

Joe: Linda McCain used to put together a conference out in California on magnetics and various different things on all sciences. She’d invite people from all over the world to show up there.
And, one time we went to her yard.. she put me up at her house. At a nice moment we had all these purty squirrels all over there and I took a fve gallon bucket of iron and poured it one corner.
Later, she called me back and says, “you know, all those little critters have moved to that corner where the paramagnetics is.

Phil: Oh, yeah

Joe: I gotta tell you a story over there. I went in with a truck and I had twenty-five gallon buckets weighing about a hundred pounds a piece. I went in to try to tell them the value of having
magnetic iron oxide as a cold pack on the head or wherever you want it. A guy had a heart attack around the swimming pool. So, I went and got my little bucket and looked and saw that I had a
little dry ice and a cold one and put one here and the cold one up against the back of his neck.

Phil: Yeah that’ll do it. (laughing)

Joe: By the time the ambulance got there he was already stimulated and back to life. The guy says
you ain’t getting’ any of these back, I don’t know what they are but you ain’t getting them back.

Phil: (laughing) You ain’t getting them back, yeah…

Joe: So, everyone around there, everyone from the science committee were there and probably fifty people who said, “what was that?” I told them, “magnetic iron oxide”. When they asked where they can get a little, I said, “I got a truck sittin’ right out there in the parking lot” and I says, “There are ten or so buckets out there”. Two hours later, there was not a single grain of sand
left. They took every last one of them and the place had run out of little containers they were
giving these people.

I didn’t have anything to show.

Phil: They should have saved you some.

Joe: They had completely flled that place up with iron oxide. That made a lot of believers in your deal there. I told a lot of them and I said, “If you really want to know more about it get a hold
of Callahan’s book.”

Phil: Yeah.

Joe: I printed your name and the title of your book on every piece of paper I handed out. I announced where to get it too.

Phil: It’s been selling pretty good. According to Acres I think it’d be going on forever now.

Joe: I’d like to see you get that other one out there. How far off are you?

Phil: I got most of it. It’s scattered around. I just got to put it together and jot stuff down here and there. I’ve got my autobiography, some about paramagnetism, my story written into it and
how it works. Don’t know what to name it yet. “Nature’s My Bride,” is what I was thinking.

Joe: It’s a magic miracle.

Phil: It’s the magic miracle. That’s what it is.

Joe: Everyone knows what MMS is.. the magic miracle

Phil: Yep, the magic miracle is what it is.

Joe: Yeah, heh heh.


Phil: Well, the partnership picked it up. I don’t know the medical profession is still in the chemical age, but ah, a doctor should have picked it up. Holistic doctors all over the country are
using it.

Joe: There’s a guy named Carter in Las Vegas has made a fortune. I just gave it to him. He made it into pads and he has these people come up to him and he soaks them in water and he adds deterium to the water, gold, and it’s liquid gold… the liquid gold has a tendency to kill pain too. He puts MSM in with it so you don’t have the taste of DMSO. He calls it “anti aging”. Halstead said that all these minerals that I’d give you today are grown in paramagnetic soils. And they’re herbs..

Phil: The herbs…

Joe: You’ve got to have good soil.

Phil: That’s right

Joe: He said he’d have to go back into China. You have to travel far where they don’t use the pesticides.

Phil: It’s still good earth. In England and China they still have traditional farmers. The coast is mostly ruined, so, you go in a hundred miles where they still got good farmland.

Joe: Now, Halstead, just before he died.. they named two good herb gardens after him. They gave him a big gold piece of metal like that, a really nice piece of metal for his work on herbs.

Phil: On herbs.. that’s right.

Joe: That was in the last book he wrote. The biggest improvement we made I think was on that coral calcium. You gotta be careful about that coral calcium. You can’t get it where they’ve done that
radioactive testing.


Phil: That’s deadly

Joe: Remember when doctor.. you know, that doctor out in California at Scripts that was working with us on that. I did a paper on him up there. That Dr. Martin seeded the ocean with that black
iron. We ground the iron down real fne and we mixed it with cotton seed oil and then air dried it using a fan so it would float on the ocean. He found that the algae would grow twenty-seven thousand times overnight and watch the whole ocean turn green…

Phil: Sure, sure, Yep, the ocean turns green.

Joe: …and the whole food chain started.

Phil: That’s right.

Joe: But, Halstead come up with something. He said, “Joe, be careful about this because it feeds off other things and it goes out to the algae. It ruins the algae. When it gets to the algae it
gets all over the coral. He said there’s a little oceanic microbe called a titan. I’d never heard of it. But a titan has a series of teeth made out of magnetite, so they’re magnetic, and they eat
the algae. They’ll eat the algae off the coral and then undermine the coral which falls over for lack of nutrients out of the bottom which is why it dies. He said this may be killing more of the
coral than you realize. It’s back to getting the iron. Be careful about trying to improve something that you don’t have a bad side effect.

Phil: The coral is diamagnetic and you really don’t want too much paramagnetism.

Joe: Well, Marilyn, why don’t you talk to him some a bit about early life?

Marilyn: I’ve been talking to his wife about it, alot. I get it straight from



the horses mouth.

Joe: Get him to talk about it a little bit. I asked Mrs. Einstein one time. I said, “You understand the Einstein Theory?” You know what she said, “no, better yet, I understand Einstein”.

Phil: Yeah, right. (turns to Marilyn) You’ll never guess where I was born.

Marilyn: Where?

Phil: Fort Benning, Georgia. In the offcers club. What happened is is an interesting story.

Marilyn: In the offcer’s club, huh…

Phil: They moved my mother into the hospital when she was ready to deliver and that evening the hospital was sort of creaking. The more it creaked the more panicked the colonel that commanded the post got, so he moved right into that room there. My father come back and the twenty- fourth infantry was all black. And so they moved my mother out to the offcer’s club and that’s where I was born. Not only was I born in the offcer’s club, I was born among the blacks. That hospital, well,it fell down the next morning. It collapsed.

Marilyn: Wow!

Phil: I got that from my sister. I remember that.

Marilyn: You can also say you brought down the house.

Phil: Yeah, I brought down the house. That’s what my sister used to say and I’d ask, “what are you talking about”, so she finally told me the story. My mother told her, but she never told me. My father who lived to sixty three knew and never told me. He smoked himself to death. My mother lived to be 89. She comes from a generation where the dead ancestors used to take quinine. So my
mother would take it when she got pregnant. Actually the drugstores sold it to them.

Joe: It’s still the main deal over in India. India still does it.

Phil: All the drug stores that make synicee sell quinine sell it sterilized.

Marilyn: You think she got her minerals that way?

Phil: It’s the paramagnetics in it for the crazy deliveries.

Joe: Now wasn’t the great epidemic, the infuenza epidemic, started from burning common horse

Phil: In the air.

Joe: A lot of airborne toxins. Got it in the air

Phil: Yep, got it in the air.

Joe: Became an airborne toxin.

Phil: An airborne toxin.

Phil: There’s so few airborne toxins in the air around here because of the soil being so paramagnetic. You can’t get sick around here even if you tried.

Joe: What do you think about these chemtrails that’s running around about here? They’re trying to keep the earth from warming up. You think they’re taking micro magnetic iron and micro aluminum and dispersing it up in the air to stop it from warming?


Phil: It might work. It might slow down what’s happening.

Joe: They’re experimenting all over..

Phil: This industry is creating so much methane that it’s destroying the atmosphere, actually. It
gets clear up 300 miles into the atmosphere.

Joe: And if the ocean gets a little warmer the methane gets frozen down there at the bottom and it

Phil: If it gets another degree warmer we’ll get into real trouble. Scientists know that. There’re
laws in most states. I don’t know about New Mexico, but I think New Mexico has a law too. They have
to cut down on their methane emissions.

Joe: Well, we haven’t talked much about politics. What do you think about our president?

Phil: Not too much.. he’s not an ecologist. (Joe begins to laugh) Kerry cares about ecology. Bush is alright, but he ain’t no ecologist that’s the whole problem. He’s an oil man.. that’s the whole

Joe: He appropriated millions of dollars for hydrogen, but he said he’d have to make it out of oil.

Phil: Yeah, that’s the problem. It’s money madness. I don’t know whether Kerry is so money mad or

Joe: He married enough of it.

Phil: I think Kerry is probably alright. I think he’s more of an ecologist than Bush. If Bush had learned something from his father.. I know both of them.. I know all three of them, but I don’t
know Kerry at all. I know Clinton very well. I went to school with him.


Joe: I didn’t know that.

Phil: We went to school together and we taught together. I’ve had forty or ffty breakfasts with president Clinton I guess. But he was an ecologist too. Bush, he’s totally oblivious to it and
destroying the environment.

Joe: Clinton was smart. Clinton had a good mind. Phil: Yeah, he was smart. He was a brilliant guy.

Joe: He had a pretty big ego.

Phil: Yeah, that’s for sure. Damn straight on that, yeah.

Joe: That’s how he’d get the best of them.

Phil: Yeah, I was the only one to put his ego down too. We went to school together and taught
together. So, he knows me real well.

Joe: He gave us the largest surplus of money we ever had.

Phil: He did what the Republicans always come to do. What they did was drive us into debt. That’s liberals.. whatever you want to call ’em. Clinton came along and that’s the only time this
country’s ever been out of debt. He knew what he was doing. He’s an economist.

Marilyn: I came here to see if you guys are getting a little hungry.

Joe: Take you to lunch?

Phil: Sure.

Joe: Okay.


Marilyn: But you know they’re an hour ahead of us and my clock says one o’clock, but it’s really
two o’clock.

Joe: (to Marilyn) I’m going to talk to him tomorrow too. (to Phil) Your wife says you have good
days and bad days. I’ll stay when you have a good one.

Phil: I’ll go to lunch with you all because I need a cup of coffee now.

Marilyn: Okay..

Joe: We had ribs last time we were here. Let’s all go down to the rib house over here.

Phil: Yeah, that’s right.. it’s right here.

Joe: I could fnd the rib house but I couldn’t fnd your house (laughs).
Ask your wife to go with us.

Marilyn: She’s getting dressed right now. She’s getting ready to go.

Joe: Okay.





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